Knee Deep: Fixed wheel riders’ knee problems
July 4, 2007I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes from people who have sustained knee damage from riding really high gears on a fixed wheel bike. I ride not a high gear, but the general opinion seems to be that fixies are bad full stop.
I couldn’t find anything to confirm that I could be fucking my knees up by riding a relatively low gear. Ignorance is bliss, but rather than carrying on riding without worry, I wanted to find something to confirm the that riding fixed is bad for your knees. Not that I’m going to get rid of the bike, but just so I can try and minimise the risk of ruining my knees forever and ever amen. Or at least so I can prepare for the inevitable.
When you search google for things like ‘fixed gear knee health’, not much seems to come up at a glance. The top result is a story on Sheldonbrown.com about some geezer with bad knees. Nothing that actually says “YES, IT IS INDEED TRUE, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, THAT FIXED WHEEL BIKE OF YOURS WILL FUCK YOUR KNEES UP FOREVER AND EVER AMEN”.
I noticed that this post on another blog mentioned fixed bikes being bad for your knees.
I asked if he had any evidence to back that up, then I waited. A load of questions emerged in the meantime. Six to be precise.
- If knee damage is caused by excessively high gearing then surely the problem can be slightly alleviated by using a really low gear (although doing 140rpm @ 18mph would be no fun).
- Considering the stop-start-stop-start pattern of riding in the city, what is an ideal gear to ride (i.e. high enough to be practical for speed, but low enough to minimisie knee damage)?
- If knee problems are caused by the inability to change to a lower gear for hills/headwinds etc, then surely the problem exists with singlespeed, freewheeling bikes too – not just fixed wheel bikes.
- I think we can ignore the pedal braking issue. ‘Fixed wheel’ does not mean ‘brakeless’. Nevertheless, if the problem is caused/worsened by backpedalling, then can the problem be alleviated by using a brake (or two)?
- For reducing knee damage, does using a front and a rear brake give significant additional benefit over just a front brake?
- Is there any evidence to confirm that all fixed wheel bikes (i.e. inculding ones with a low gear and hand brake(s)) are bad for your knees?
Anyway – a few days after my comment on the blog I mentioned before, the author concluded:
Across the board, it is universally accepted by medical experts that high-gear, low-cadence pedaling has a high likelihood of causing knee pain and permanent injury. The main preventative measure as well as primary remedy for that problem is low-gear, high-cadence riding, which is only possible with the ability to change to appropriate gears throughout a ride. Fixed-gear riders are unable to avail themselves of that remedy, and because of that, they experience more frequent and higher pressures on the knee than a rider on a bike with gears.
Plenty of references. Take a look, it might just scare you off riding that brakeless track bike of yours… If you value your knees, that is.
More questions emerged.
- If it is completely true that fixed wheel bikes do cause permanent damage to the knees, then why do so many couriers continue to use them?
- How severe can the damage be, and how long does it take to show itself?
- Should complete bikes (like the Specialized Langster or Bianchi Pista) come with a warning?
- Should long-term couriers switch to geared bikes instead?
- Why is there so little information out there relating to fixies and knee health (or why is it not so easy to find)?
Obviously what I’ve seen so far is pretty one-sided. We can’t make our minds up until we’ve heard both sides of the argument.
But long-term messengers who ride a fixed bike every day should be cautious. Our ability to pay the rent and put food in our mouths depends on our physical health. The risk of permanent damage to the knees is just not worth taking for convenience and cost. Perhaps it’s time to reconsider whether riding fixed every day is a good idea or not…
Though not strictly related to fixed gear, this article has info on how to prevent it from happening.
I hate having knees.
Given the knee problems described, isn’t the headline & focus a little wrong. It’s really about *single speed* riders’ knee problems, or even *people that don’t know how to shift* ’s knee problems.
The only knee issue I can see as being fixed-specific is the un-natural stresses placed on the knee when braking by resisting the pedals. I can’t think of any other activity where the tibia/shin is pulled so strongly (and violently in some rapid stops) *away* from the knee as it is when you pull up against the toe toestrap or clipless, especially in any decent sized gear.
Hard to find much written about that, but I do recall a cycling-aware doctor mentioning exactly that – the knee was in no way designed or evolved to handle those kind of forces, I really wish I remembered where I read it.
“Given the knee problems described, isn’t the headline & focus a little wrong. It’s really about *single speed* riders’ knee problems”
If you actually read past the headline you’ll see that I wrote
” If knee problems are caused by the inability to change to a lower gear for hills/headwinds etc, then surely the problem exists with singlespeed, freewheeling bikes too – not just fixed wheel bikes.”
Of course the problem isn’t limited to fixed wheel bikes, you could ruin your knees by pushing an excessively high gear on a 30 speed racer. But I don’t give a fuck about the knees of people with gears, they’re idiots if they don’t use them properly. I care about my knees, and the fact is that I ride fixed and I always hear people saying that fixed bikes are bad for your knees. Which is why the post and its title focus on fixed wheel bikes.
so if you’re wondering why fixed riders would have more knee problems than other riders, then you’d need to isolate what it is that we do that is unique to fixed – as you say, if it were caused by being limited to one gear “then surely the problem exists with singlespeed, freewheeling bikes too” I agree.
so what might it be? of the potential causes of knee pain that you go over, none are fixed-specific issues except for pedal braking, and of that you say “I think we can ignore the pedal braking issue”. fair enough, i don’t agree, but maybe we can ignore it.
so, out of all those words we’re left with not one possible cause that is specific to the way we ride fixies, yet you “always hear people saying that fixed bikes are bad for your knees”
why is that?
The reason that I always hear people saying fixed wheel bikes are bad for your knees is because I have spoken to lots of people who ride fixed, or people who have ridden fixed in the past, or people who know someone else who rides / has ridden fixed. And some of those people said it’s bad for your knees. That’s why I’m concerned about my knees, because I ride fixed too.
I do not know one person who rides a singlespeed. neither do I know anyone who rides a geared bike in too high a gear. Which is why I’ve never heard anyone say anything about singlespeed knee problems or geared bike too high gear problems.
Just because I often hear someone else say fixed wheel bikes are bad for your knees doesnt mean I think the issue is specific to fixed wheel bikes. however I do think that knee problems are more likely to occur in fixed wheel riders because so many ride brakeless or use their pedals in addition to the front brake. And/or I’m more likely to hear about it because as I mentioned above, I know lots of people who ride fixed.
I didn’t just say we can ignore the pedal braking issue, I said we can ignore it because you don’t have to pedal brake if you’re riding a fixie. I didn’t say the issue doesn’t exist, and I didn’t say that it’s unimportant – the fact is that a lot of people do pedal brake.
what is your point exactly?
Im 19 and i been riding fixed gear bikes and single speeds 4 awhile now. i found schiffs move free help your knees glucosamine and chondroitin u can get it at health stores. i snaped my collarbone with a 15 pound packpack going like 30 mph so im on the single speed 4 awhile
[...] Knee Deep: Fixed wheel riders’ knee problems July 4th, 2007 I’ve heard plenty of anecdotes from people who have sustained knee damage from riding really high gears on a fixed wheel bike. I ride not a high gear, but the general opinion seems to be that fixies are bad full stop. I couldn’t find anything to confirm that I could be fucking my knees up by riding a relatively low gear. Ignorance is bliss, but rather than carrying on riding without worry, I wanted to find something to confirm the that riding fixed is bad for your knees. Not that I’m going to get rid of the bike, but just so I can try and minimise the risk of ruining my knees forever and ever amen. Or at least so I can prepare for the inevitable. When you search google for things like ‘fixed gear knee health’, not much seems to come up at a glance. The top result is a story on Sheldonbrown.com about some geezer with bad knees. Nothing that actually says “YES, IT IS INDEED TRUE, NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, THAT FIXED WHEEL BIKE OF YOURS WILL FUCK YOUR KNEES UP FOREVER AND EVER AMEN”. http://messengerofdoom.wordpress.com…knee-problems/ __________________ Sun is shining, birds are singing, flowers are growing, clouds are looming and I am flying [...]
Just got back from the Sports Medicine Clinic. Mensical tear requiring repair, will take me out for a while. So I’m a fashionista, OK, been riding fixed for more than a year. Absolutely love it, ride a small (39/16) gear around town (hey, it’s Seattle, we got real hills) with brakes. I like to spin, always have, but riding fixed you’re going to crank hard sometimes. No getting around it.
Yeah, one anectdote nor a hundred… no proof it was the bike at all… bleh… but it sure feels like that last night at the velodrome was the clincher. The knee felt radioactive the next day. I’m sad, cause I love the feel of fixed and it made me a lot stronger, no question. But I’m giving it up for a while.
in my opinion, and whatever that is worth is up to you to decide – im just a dude that rides (both) a lot – the only thing really fatal to the knees on a fixie is backpedaling, which creates eccentric conractions in physiology speek. this is said to tear miscle fibers in a way that does not encourage rebuilding the way other muscular excersize does. Riding with a break AND USING IT will greatly reduce risk. damage is cumulative, so it may take a while for anything to be noticed as well.
Hello, fixed!
I ride fixed for about 1.5 yrs; 42/17 brakeless for commuting, 42/16 w front brake for longer rides, centuries, on flat/rolling terrain. 42/18 for sustained climbs (Mt.Mitchell, Clingmans Dome ~ 6600 ft). Did not get really impressive knee problems, with sustained pain, although I noticed that something was happening there, a different kind of load, but, again, nothing to keep me for riding, or making me to take pills and things like that.
Yes, I am a little afraid to get knee problems on the long run, but I believe that with some attention the bad stuff can be avoided, like short gears, stand-up when braking by resisting cranks motion, use the counterrotating pressure only on the lower half of the circle, when the knees are not bent that much; I remember I read somewhere that the excessive bent of the knee associated with high load is really dangerous; that’s whay when they teach you to do squats with the barbel on you shoulders, you should not bend your legs at an angle smaller than 90 degrees. And, of course, saddle as high as possible, shorter cranks, 170, even 165 if you like it, warm up, don’t mash the pedals, develop controled muscle tension when pedaling.
All the best,
G
what would be the best gear ratio for proper cadence with single speed/fixie?
*i have a 42/16
That’s like asking ‘what is the best ice cream’.
What suits one person perfectly might be completely wrong for the next person.
I have been riding a fixed wheel for most of my cycling life, which would be about 56years (I am 65) and I was hearing that story way back then. I have never had leg problems in all that time. Maybe it’s because I normally run a 42X16 and use BOTH brakes. Other friends from way back have had problems but they had fixed into the 13 and 14 range. Know the terrain you are riding in and spin,not lug,has always been my motto. It’s a hell of a work out,but it works for me!
I have been riding my fixed around 20 miles a day in hilly conditions for about a year now and I didn’t have any knee problems at all until I discovered SKIDDING. Skidding is a really fun way to stop, but it started giving me knee problems (I probably should have guessed that yanking up on my leg hard enough to skid would eventually cause some damage…duh). I now use my front brake most of the time and avoid skidding unless I really have to. I also started really being aware of the way I’m using my muscles in my legs (Not using muscles I don’t have to, making sure my legs are moving in a natural way, etc.) My knees have been repairing themselves since I made these changes. They feel better each day.
On a side note. I wish people would stop belittling fixed gear riders who aren’t messengers. We aren’t mindless sheep who just want to look cool. I can speak only for myself, but I ride fixed because they are really fun to ride and, especially if you can track stand, they are way easier in tightly packed heavy start and stop traffic (which is why they are so popular in urban areas like Brooklyn). I was pretty anti-fixed pro gears until I actually tried one. Tons-o-fun.
Ride safe, everybody.
p.s. Thank you, Giuc for the good tips.
Come on. I ride 48×15 and my knees are just fine – actually better. The backpedalling has really toughened up my left knee which has always been weaker than my right one. I have to mention that I use flat pedals and that i position my feet so the pedal is really close to the heel. So actually I’m doing a lot of squats on my bike :D It has always puzzled me why people ride fixed with straps – it forces you to transfer the force through the toes and that’s a real knee-killer with high forces. You don’t see powerlifters squat on their toes do you?
The ‘correct’ way to pedal is through the ball of the foot, not the toes.
Fags.
What has cigarettes got to do with this?
jkc: I don’t believe you.
I had an ACL reconstruction a couple of years back and took up Fixie riding after that. All was fine for a while until i decided to have toe straps. Then my weaker knee couldnt handle the force, it tore my cartiledge and fractured the top of my tibia (but luckily my ACL graft is ok)
I have no doubt that it was the combo of Fixed and Toestraps that isnt great for your knees. I’m definately going to have to go back to freewheel now which is a bit gutting because I loved riding fixed.
I don’t get why anyone would ride without straps…especially fixed.